[19], To the Thamd, We sent their brother, li. The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. (9:70) Have they not heard the accounts of those who came before them [77] - of the people of Noah and 'Ad and Thamud, and the people of Abraham and the dwellers of Madyan (Midian), and the cities that were overturned? The Story of The Aad And The Thamud Nation_ Qur'an __ | _ Dua for Relief Distress, Laziness, Debts : Suhih Muslim_ Book of General Behaviour_ Kitab al Suhih Muslim_ The Book of Destiny (KITAB-UL-QADR) Chapter___ Raising Index Finger in Tashahhud. I guess it can be said that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the nations succeeding the people of Thamud. Not only did they reject them, they mocked, ridiculed, and in the case of Salih (AS) they even tried to kill him. They may have even intermingled to the point of losing any distinction along ethnic lines as there is no good reason or evidence to preclude the idea that the Thamud also ventured and lived in Petra and the surrounding areas. Other ahadith mention that this was the land of Thamud ie. Encyclopaedia Britannica's editors oversee subject areas in which they have extensive knowledge, whether from years of experience gained by working on that content or via study for an advanced degree. And Ad and Thamud as has been made clear from their dwellings. The tribes of Arabia engaged in nomadic herding and agriculture since 6000 BCE. Q.28:58 is general: And how many a city have We destroyed that was insolent in its [way of] living, and those are their dwellings which have not been inhabited after them except briefly. Only Allah knows if this scenario really happened. Based on some of the artifacts and writing, there are several civilizations at play here and they consider that the stone carvings were the work of Nabataens), Assalam alikum but mu point is it make it sound like these 2 verses mean that thamud and AD buildings were still standing tall my point is on the arabic word atharan because does this mean that this verses are saying midian al saleh are thamud because that would be wrong, Does atharan mean we have to see it or does it just mean they made marks witch we dont have to see, Walikum asalam We must look at them, ponder over the signs of Allah and take heed. They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert. The following commentary on the verses from Obadiah, found in biblestudytools.com, is rather revealing. Also, the Prophet () did in fact mention the dwellings in a separate hadith. Amorites They were successors to the People of Noah. [14] The Thamd in question were Roman auxiliary troops, as the inscription states explicitly: For the well-being of the rulers of the whole world Marcus Aurelius Anthoninus and Lucius Aurelius Verus, who are the conquerors of the Armenians. As for their dates, I do not know and it is not necessary that they would have to be very close to each other. Take your time and let it sink in: 1. Instead, they tried to engage Salih in debate. [21], A hadith tradition preserved in the a al-Bukhr collection narrates that the Islamic prophet Muhammad called Hegra "the land of Thamud" and did not allow his troops to drink from its wells or to use its water, and to never enter its ruins "unless weeping, lest occur to you what happened to them. Abul Ala Maududi. [5] This entire passage has been sent by Waqar. Large numbers of Bani Rasheed are also found on the Arabian Peninsula. We dont have remains of Ad, do we? It becomes rather implausible that a people who a had a law against building a house, would then start constructing breathtakingly massive structures from the rocks of the mountains themselves. Because inscriptions cannot be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are not. The sentence, This structure is not only large enough and a couple more contained links. A Reminder of the Story of 'Aad and Thamud by Ibn Kathir, taken from Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 8 Darussalam 2000 As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right and they said: 'Who is mightier than us in strength?' See they not that Allah Who created them was mightier in strength than them. Qur'anic accounts of Salih always follow those of Hud. There are countless artists, pundits, and celebrities who mock Allah, His Messenger (pbuh), and Islam. Summary: The cravings that Quran says were done by Thamud were in Wad l-Qura. And they used to carve from the mountains, houses, feeling secure. Both. [6], Thamd is also mentioned in Classical sources. Finally, we should understand that Allah has no problem replacing one people with another. JazakAllah, Thats fine I know that is just the way some people talk I talk to the point because Im using a mobile so I have to keep as short as possible my problem with the verse was normally when it says travel the land or as such its talking about nations close and the nations close to the Arabs were ad and thamud so some say that this verse is saying the quran thinks these buildings were built by thamud but we know they were built by the nabtions not thamud but we know the quran is not wrong so how do we explain that verse jazzakkallah because it makes it sound like that is this verse speaking in the present tense or past like tilka arabic and lam arabic jazzakkallah thanks for the help, Its like the same problem with 40:21 40:82 it sounds like thamud and pointing to these tombs etc but we know it cant be so how do we explain this as well jazzakkallah, And 27:52 because people say this sounds like it as well the kawatan arabic means empty so it sounds like it saying these tombs as well but it is mainly 28:58 I have the problem with jazzakkallah. Allah says: `Say, O Muhammad, to these idolators who disbelieve in the message of truth that you have brought: If you turn away from that which I have brought to you from Allah, then I warn you of the punishment of Allah like the . The Targum is,thou art like to an eagle that dwells in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is in a high place;this they were proud of, thinking themselves safe, which deceived them; hence it follows: that saith in his heart, who shall bring me down to the ground? Certain objections can and may arise with the above narrative. I look forward to your response my dear brother. As for the conclusion that Ashab al-Hijr were not Thamud, I think this is rather unwarranted. According to Arab tradition, the Adnanites are called Arabised because it is believed that Ishmael Spoke Aramaic and Egyptian then learnt Arabic from a Qahtanite Yemeni woman that he married. During this time, the Nabateans built structures out of rock throughout their Kingdom, The buildings are not homes but are actually tombs, The inscriptions in al-Hijr are not those made by Thamud , At 26 instances in the Quran Thamud are mentioned by name and in none of those contexts they have been called People of al-Hijr, Where the carvings done by Thamud are mentioned the place of it is also mentioned, Quran 89:9 where the places is mentioned as al-Wad which means Wad lQura, The carvings made by the people of al-Hijr are mentioned in 15:82 and the people of al-Hijr is a title of the Nabateans. This is an article I recently wrote. [7] Today, all these areas are located in the Arab world with the exception of Khuzestan. Heavy contact with Romans resulted in us having a pretty decent record of its territories and people. Tribes originating in the Arabian Peninsula. Our editors will review what youve submitted and determine whether to revise the article. Missionaries and polemicists seize upon the error of this folklore as an alleged example of the error of the Quran, but in reality, this is not the case. They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. [2] The Quran endorses this fact; they were not outright destroyed and the believers survived: Then look! Al-ijr is now a vast plain, interspersed with hills into which what looks from the outside like houses or tombs have been carved. 2. They were often stronger than you in signs or athar left behind has been oft repeated. Theyre mentioned in 25:38 and 50:12. Perhaps they couldnt understand the significance of receiving a camel. The exact time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine. Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. 89:9 is in past tense. However, while I agree that these two groups are certainly predecessors to modern Arabs, Im not convinced that Hud, Salih, Shuayb, and Ismail were actually Arabs.. As for now, we dont know. These include Sunni Huwala and Achomi people, who compromise of both fully Arab and mixed Arab-Persian families. But the Thamud were more nuanced in their rejection. [22], The first wave of Arab immigration to the Maghreb began with the conquest of the Maghreb in the seventh century, with the migration of sedentary and nomadic Arabs to the Maghreb from the Arabian Peninsula. They lived in houses carved into the surface of the earth. 2. God knows best. Aad and Thamud are two of several communities described in the Quran as recipients of Gods chosen prophets and being utterly destroyed for rejecting them. The Aad and the Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the Quran. And [We destroyed] 'Aad and Thamud and the companions of the well and many generations between them. When Allah sent their brother Salih (AS) to advise them of the true faith, they rejected him just like the Aad had rejected Hud before. Replying by always staying what is the problem or what is the issue seems to have a rebuking or shaming tone that appears very harsh to the questioner. [22], Thamudic is an aggregate name for some 15,000 inscriptions from all over Arabia, which have not been properly studied and identified as separate languages. The general consensus among 14th-century Arab genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: . Ok thanks jazzakkallah last questions and ill leave it at that what do you mean not on the surface and is 89:9 saying the Arabs could still see those buildings because it says (the rocks it uses al the why not just say rocks and what does it mean by rocks does it mean houses or mountains thanks Yes, I understood but if you read my comment, youll see that this problem is addressed. He said, "My people, just think: if I did have clear proof from my Lord, and if He had given me mercy of His own, who could protect me from God if I disobeyed Him? Umar reported that the people encamped along with Allahs Messenger () in the valley of Hijr, the habitations of Thamud, and they quenched their thirst from the wells thereof and kneaded the flour with it. (LogOut/ Other later Arab migrations in Iran include the mostly cross Gulf migrations of Arabs into Hormozgan and Fars provinces from modern day eastern Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States, post 16th century. Wadi al-Qura, refer to the article above. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. 1. [18], On the eve of the Rashidun Caliphate's conquest of the Levant, 634 AD, Syria's population mainly spoke Aramaic; Greek was the official language of administration. Dont ever think youre indespensible. Qur'anic accounts of Salih always follow those of Hud. Have not read their own bibles. Are these tourist sites now identified at Madian Saleh the same as those we see discussed in the saheeh ahadith during the Tabuk expedition or is that a different location because these sites are identified as built by Nabataens and not Thamud and are considered much later than Thamud people (if we consider the finds to be absolutely authentic that these are Nabataens who built them. There is no good reason to suggest that these tombs never served as a place of dwelling, as they are large enough to do so. Allah sent the Prophet Hud to give the Aad the message of Islam. Numerous rock writings and pictures traditionally attributed to the Thamd have been found on Mount Athlab and throughout central Arabia; though labeled Thamdic, they actually reflect a diverse set of ancient Semitic dialects used by various Arabian tribes. The Rashaida of Sudan and Eritrea live in close proximity with the Beja people. But certainly, there is some potential that something like this may have happened. This also makes it clear that the people were punished. Asalam Alie Kum Qur'an and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings Abu Rahma / March 22, 2016 It is argued that the Qur'an and the Prophet () made an error in history and facts [1]. The Ayah is general [And how many a city have I (Allah) destroyed]? Unfortunately, both nations rejected their prophets. 3) The tombs were in fact built by Thamud as houses and the Nabateans simply inscribed them later. Then, his progeny, and his people, came to be known by the name of ` Ad. According to Arab traditions, tribes are divided into different divisions called Arab skulls ( ), which is a term given to a group of tribes of the Arabian Peninsula, which are described in the traditional custom of strength, abundance, victory, and honor. 62-63]. The Nabateans have not left us with any records, thus inscriptions become the primary dating of these structures. The Qurn saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the land. The Middle verse in chapter (25) of the Noble Quran talks about Noah's people, Ad (the people of the prophet Hud) and Thamud (the people of the prophet Salih). Im also inclined to believe that these nine families were the direct descendents of those believers who escaped the land of the Aad with Hud. Its also implausible that a people who would be at the helm of such epic architectural and engineering achievements would not even make mention of it, or at least keep a record of it. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. Their early inscriptions were in Aramaic, but gradually switched to Arabic, and since they had writing, it was they who made the first inscriptions in Arabic. 4. The hadith reports the prophet (pbuh) as having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins as their dwellings referring to the Thamud. They may have later acquired Hellenistic techniques and applied them on their structures. 5. The Christians are claiming that the Qurans statement about Thamud carving structures in the hills and mountains is demonstrably false as the structures are built not by the Thamud but by the Nabateans, who came much later. Yusuf Ali: But if they turn away, say thou: "I . Marcus Aurelius Anthoninus and Lucius Aurelius Verus, who are the conquerors of the Armenians. They built buildings on the land and also carved them in hills. The hadiths show that there were wells present in that particular spot attributed to the Thamud. But as well see below, archaeological and literary records place them firmly in Northern Arabia/Jordan, well after the death of Jesus (33 AD). Then do you see any remains?Chapter 69, Verses 6 8. A temple they constructed at Rawwafa, 200 miles north of Medina, mentions the following in a Greek-Nabataean bilingual inscription: For the wellbeing of the rulers of the whole world . They are mentioned in the Quran as examples of civilizations that Allah had destroyed because of their sins and as signs of the fleeting nature of the worldly power. While certain online Christian communities are abuzz with elation and glee, some Muslims are faced with difficulties in formulating a proper response to the latest Christian accusation. Success comes from Allah, and Allah knows best. The Arabs then could see Thamud dwellings but we today cannot. The Quran mentions the Thamud as an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed by God for their sins. And remember when He made you successors after the Aad and settled you in the land, [and] you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. We have to be open to the idea that a person living thousands of years ago will have a different concept of a place of dwelling than we, in the 21st century, do. Therefore, the Adnanites are descendants of Abraham. [16] It is possible that the Thamud were not one tribe, and that other tribes took on the name of Thamd after the original tribe by that name had gone extinct. No doubt! God sent down a milch camel as his sign, and Salih told his countrymen that they should not harm the camel and allow it to drink from their well. [Prophet], it is your Lord who is the Strong, the Mighty One. _ Story of Aad _tafseer. They were elites. The terror you inspire [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. What the hidden 85 percent will reveal remains to be seen. Of course, when they challenged Allah and His Messenger like this, they were just inviting destruction. 5. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. As regarding to the Ahadith from Ibn Umar (as), they seem to be a interpretation of him itself, the prophet (as) says nothing about them. Some of these questions were sincere, but most of the time they were just trying to trip him up. From the overall area of a few miles, that particular area of a few feet had Thamudic remains. Another inscription from the same temple mentions Aad by name, and reads, by Ghawth son of Aslah son of Thokam and he constructed the temple of Allt, of the people of Ad. A little later, Pliny, the Elder (d. 79 AD), a Roman historian, while writing hisNatural History,mentions theThamudaei5 a people dominant in Hegra, adjoining the Nabataeans. 15:75 can also be interpreted as a HISTORICAL sign/reminder when referring to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Regardless, the thamud tribes structures remained for people to see according to Quran. [22], A poem attributed to Umayya ibn Abi--alt, a Meccan contemporary of Muhammad who refused to accept Islam, contains a reference to the camel and Thamud. The Quran tells us that the people of Ad started to build altars on the high places, and even strongholds in the mountains. Of course, only Allah knows the truth. The glorious Qur'an considered the people of 'Ad after Nuh (a); when it says, "and that it is He who destroyed the former 'Ad", "The former 'Ad" were the people of Prophet Hud (a) who lived after the people of Nuh (a) and before the people of Thamud. My people, this camel belongs to God, a sign for you, so leave it to pasture on God's earth and do not harm it, or you will soon be punished." The pagan Arabs were acquainted with their existence but nothing more is known about them. As we know, he gave the nations some period until the determined day of punishment. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. If we remember that Ismails mother (Hajjar) was an Egyptian, or Coptic, slave, and his father Prophet Ibrahim (AS) was Babylonian, then its obvious that he couldnt also be Arab. Beni Hassan defeated both Berbers and Black Africans in the region, pushing them southwards to the Senegal river while the Arab tribes settled in Mauritania. Some Muslims have mistakenly equated sites such as these with the first Thamud of the Quran, but it is believed by archaeologists that a different group of people called the Nabataeans, in fact, built some of these sites. Amend their accusation to now include the Bible also. [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. They are related to Thamd only in being much later structures sharing the same geographical location. In my research, I did discover that the tombs do contain pre-Nabatean inscriptions. Now imagine if people arrive from Latin America, find Mount Rushmore, and make a few inscriptions on it. Indeed, the Quran states that many generations came after the first tribe of Thamud without specifying an exact timeline. So bring on whatever punishment you say is coming to us.. The Meaning of La Ilaha Illa Allah (Tawheed): What is Islam? Otherwise, it could be also the Lihyanites, who disappeared some time before Isa (as), they also had some kind of rock art. We have no concrete evidence that Nabateans were destroyed. We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. Let me explain who they are People Aad, and they are said to be called Aad by the name of their father, an extinct Arab tribe mentioned in the Qur'an . Theres no real reason to mention them lastly, except they came after al-Rass and they are also included in this chronological order as well. You can find the first onehere), Thamud were before time of the Israelites they were same time as the Assyrians who they mixed with. Good reply Adeel. Guiding Romantic Desire: Wisdom in the Sexual Ethics of Islam, Custodianship of the Right Hand: Concubinage, Rape, and Sexual Slavery in Islam. As for objection number one, as far as my research has shown, the only reason that the carved-out structures are considered tombs is due to various rectangular carved out niches inside them where the dead bodies were to be placed. If the Nabateans carved out the structures on the hills and mountains of Petra and Median Saleh, as the Christians allege, then both the Quran and the Bible are in error, which I dont agree with. [12] The temple inscriptions (in Ancient Greek and Nabataean Aramaic) state that it was constructed by a priest named dt of the "Thamd of Robath" for lh, apparently the patron deity of the tribe, with the Roman government's support. and the pride of your heart have deceived you, Corrections? 11. They are mentioned in the Quran as examples of civilizations that Allah had destroyed because of their sins and as signs of the fleeting nature of the worldly power. 85 percent of the region is still untouched, and hidden. 6. Verses 15:80-83describe its inhabitants as carving their homes out of mountains and being decimated by a loud shriek characteristics ascribed by the Quran elsewhere to the people of Thamud2. The Edomites can also be a separate nation and through the passage time they shared history, tradition, and custom with the remnants of the Thamud. These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Bani, Banu. Now today, Thamudic ones have not remained and what is preserved are the Nabatean ruins, Assalam alikum I think what the people are trying to say is if I got this right is that the hadith says dont enter the homes houses of thamud so the verses makes it sound like the houses were still standing tall back then and some non muslims use this hadith to say the muhammad peace be upon him thought that these houses that were built by the thamud but that he got it wrong because these tombs were built by the nabtions not thamud and Ibn Kathir thought the same this is what I think they mean. Though one could argue that they knew of Salih and hence Allah could hold them responsible, but this is speculation. Or just left relics in land 6. So they concluded that the Nabateans did constructed them. Thirdly, the hadith you quoted isnt the only hadith on the topic. They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. Yes both Ad and thamud left dwelling places as opposed to some other Nations mentioned in the Quran but again the reference is generic to many other Nations not mentioned in the book that came to other parts of the world etc. After giving birth, the camel drank all the water from a well every two days and then produced enormous amounts of milk for the people. I would be interested in your response to my other points as well. Their dwellings remained but very partially [21] Syrians who belonged to Monophysitic denominations welcomed the peninsular Arabs as liberators. [2] The Thamud are not specially connected to the Thamudic scripts, an aggregate term for understudied writing systems of Ancient Arabia. - - * - Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with Aad; of Iram of the lofty pillars? (Quran 89:6-7). A. Yusuf Ali wrote: The Thamud people were destroyed by a dreadful earthquake which threw them prone on the ground and buried them with their houses and their fine buildings., A terrible earthquake came and buried the people [of Thamud] and destroyed their boasted civilization. An archeologist studying Mount Rushmore 2000 years after the inscriptions may well deduce that the statues of Mount Rushmore were made by Latin Americans and even guess the date incorrectly. Also if it is in the present it makes it sound there buildings were like brand new like not destroyed etc, This is it then Im done but thank you very much for answering my questions jazzakkallah, 3. Continue the discussion, Ok thanks so what does atharan mean in classical arabic or can it mean effects and results in classical arabic as well can it mean made as well as left jazzakkallah, And you said that there remains will show they once were better then you do you mean like if throw there might only be a few bricks left those bricks will still show they once were better because of the size of those bricks and how they were carved and the same with broken pillars even this they are broken the size of the circle shaped and the way they are cut they show that they were once supier and still are by the relics than you is that what you mean jazzakkallah by there relics show they once were better even there not that great now like old roman and egyptian bricks not standing but lieing down decaying but we can still tell they built better stuff like all I have to do is find one large bone of a dinosaur to know they are big that I dont need to find a lot of bones to know that is that what you mean jazzakkallah, I mean witch of these sound more like what the verses are saying 1. [9] The Thamd also joined the Roman armies as auxiliaries, and the Notitia Dignitatum mentions two units of Thamd warriors serving the Roman Empire, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine.[10]. Its almost impossible to know for certain that the many tombs with Nabatean inscriptions are indeed constructed by them, especially when we know that only 15% of the area in Petra has been excavated and examined. See the video here (arabic): https://youtu.be/yjRjkjQ-VEA, Me however I lean towards that Madain Saleh is not the place for the Quranic Thamud like Dr Thiaeb (linguist of ancient arabic and archeologist) has been repeatedly saying at least since 1995, because among other reasons that Madain Saleh lacks all the marks of Gods wrath, the earth quake levelling Thamud etc. 27:52 is in present tense. Assalamualaikum I dont believe 27:50-53 is necessarily referring to their houses existing at the time of the Prophet SAW when they tell us to behold the sign therein. In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. Answer (1 of 7): Yes They were called the people of Aad and they were ancient arabs. A Warning to the Disbelievers and a Reminder of the Story of `Ad and Thamud. This is because Prophet Ismail (AS) is often considered to be the father of Arabs just like Prophet Ishaaq/Isaac (AS) is considered to be the father of the Israelites. Suppose if Nuh ( ) came 40,000 years ago or even 100,000 years ago and the few hundred or a few thousand people were destroyed by the flood, then it would not be difficult to believe that human population reached in millions, further subdividing into nations, communities, and tribes, after thousands of years. The Nabataeans were nomadic Arabs who moved into territory vacated by the Edomites Semites who settled the region centuries before them. 15. One-third of the tombs, which are amongst the largest, are clearly dated to between 0-75 CE. Abdullah ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: . Although the Thamud probably originated in southern Arabia, a large group apparently moved northward at an early date, traditionally settling on the slopes of Mount Athlab. After all, camels were and still are pretty common in that part of the world. But given the possibility that these ruins could have once been created, either completely or partially, by the Thamud and taken later by the Edomites in Petra and then the Nabateans, who inscribed graffiti on themtheir inscriptions are exactly thator even carved out recesses inside of them, there isnt an unsurmountable problem. Assalamualaikum thnx for the link. However, as the Christians have proposed an objection to the notion of any other people carving structures in hills and mountains prior to the Nabateans, this leaves the Christians with the following options: (1). Arabian tradition holds that the Thamud kingdom was destroyed by God. Witch out of these 7 does it sound more what the verses are saying or does it mean something other than these 7 1995. International Dictionary of Historic Places. Adites conquered Iraq and Syria mixing with the Akkadians and Amorites( They are known as the people of Us, When actual tribe of ad perished Prophet Hud pbuh was with the banu thamud who are from him, they livedfrom North Arabia to greater part of Syria mixing with the Assyrians . There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. Claim that the Edomites are not Thamud thus the verses are irrelevant. This structure is not only large enough to house several individuals, but contains benches which suggests that it served some social function, hence it can qualify to be called a place of dwelling. [28] JazakAllah. Now we dont see the remains of Nuhs AS people now do we? Change). The Quran states regarding them: , And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. Archaeological sites In sum, missionaries and polemicists contrive an accusation against the Quran by obscuring, deliberately or not, the meaning of Thamud in the Quran and its relationship to the complex array of archaeological sites in Arabia.
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